Posts by Reality vs Delusion

47

The Illusion of Superiority

by Coded Logic in

after reading dozens and dozens of posts and hundreds of comments, it seems to me that a great many people on this forum think that since they figured out ttatt, they must therefore be a highly intelligent and incredibly rational individual.

let me take a moment to congratulate everyone.

its a big step to figure this out - i know.. that said, it doesn't make you a genius!

Reality vs Delusion

Coded, you speak like someone who has been brutally honest with your own emotions and your thinking. You seriously want to get past the JW thinking and the general nonsense that drown people their entire lives. That is commendable and rare.

When someone is aggressively honest with themselves, they tend to assume others are also honest. Sadly, that is not true.

Most people wallow in their problems and react angrily at anyone who doesn’t validate their issues. That is just people. They will complain: “You didn’t take my issues into consideration” or “That’s not what I want to believe” or "You're mean". They want you to make them feel good about themselves, nothing deeper than that.

An honest person cares about the validity of what is said, not how sweetly it is conveyed. Continue being brutally honest with yourself. I would suggest only having serious conversations with others that are just as honest and are already moving in the same direction as you.

Here is a perfect example of what you can expect, read Viviane's thread "What is spirit, exactly?". Viviane asks a simple, honest question & courageously insists on a real answer. You will be amazed at the all the personal attacks and dishonest gibberish that is spewed in response.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/279886/1/What-is-spirit-exactly#.VAiJzMVdW-k

47

REALITY may not be what you think

by Terry in

a counterfeit $100 bill looks virtually the same as a genuine bill.

ask yourself what actual difference exists between them?.

a really good elvis impersonator may look and sound pretty darned close to the real elvis--but, is "close" the same as genuine?.

Reality vs Delusion

Page 3 will not load for some reason & I cannot read anything. Pages 1 and 2 are fine, but not 3. Odd.

I am hoping if I post, it will let me view the page.

47

REALITY may not be what you think

by Terry in

a counterfeit $100 bill looks virtually the same as a genuine bill.

ask yourself what actual difference exists between them?.

a really good elvis impersonator may look and sound pretty darned close to the real elvis--but, is "close" the same as genuine?.

Reality vs Delusion

Ultimate reality isn’t known right now. One day, someone will probably prove it with mathematics and eventually it will become fact. I imagine we will be greatly disappointed in how unimportant we really are in the entire scheme of things. Today's grand ideas will be seen as naive hundreds of years from now, as it has always been.

People who become fascinated with the idea of quantum physics or other sciences and then make claims about how knowing science gives them “magical thoughts” or special understanding should be ignored. It is no different than someone who claims to have all the answers about god. Just ask them to prove it & they will reply that you have to have 'faith' in one form or another.

It is just another form of escapism. It is the abandoning of reality in favor of a desperate personal delusion.

Etude, it seems you are describing experiences. Experiences are hugely important to our survival and enjoyment to life, but they are not reality. Ideally, I would imagine our experiences and reality should be very similar, with some differences to allow for our personality.

True, every person experiences an object differently, but the object will always act according to its nature. Reality is the nature of the object. Our beliefs about the object are only accurate if they match its true nature, but our experiences with the object can be anything we chose.

While the observer may alter an object, it is only because the nature of the object allows it to be altered. We are living within a system that gives us plenty of control, but to control nature, we must recognize the reality & function of the system.

Our core thinking has to be grounded in reality. If experiences, wishing, imagining, or truly believing altered the nature of reality itself, then schizophrenia would be a superpower.

47

REALITY may not be what you think

by Terry in

a counterfeit $100 bill looks virtually the same as a genuine bill.

ask yourself what actual difference exists between them?.

a really good elvis impersonator may look and sound pretty darned close to the real elvis--but, is "close" the same as genuine?.

Reality vs Delusion

I should clarify that when I say sane and insane, I am not being insulting or insinuating mental illness. I see sanity as simply seeing things as the are and insanity is refusing to see what is real and manufacturing an alternate story to replace reality. Many mentality healthy people behaving “insanely” simply because they don’t realize they have a choice.

A “sane” person will do their best to see through their emotional baggage and recognize what is really happening & respond to the facts of the situation. They will understand that if they ignore reality, it will be harmful to them. You can recognize a “sane” person because they will consistently choose what is best for themselves emotionally and physically. They are usually more sincere and relaxed because they have no false identity or beliefs to uphold.

An “insane” person creates delusions and beliefs to escape reality, which they must assume will harm them. You can recognize an “insane” person because they will consistently choose what is unhealthy for themselves.

Having feelings and emotions are good. I am not suggesting we act like Spock and behave and speak in pure rationality. But my experience when leaving the JWs was that I didn’t feel anything genuine, it was all programming, rehearsed responses, and emotional self defense. I was emotionally crippled. Only when I faced each issue (real or imagined) openly did I see that my delusions & beliefs had replaced any real emotions & feelings. My perceptions were based on those delusions.

Now my emotions flow more naturally. They are more gentle and I am not blinded by them. I don’t feel controlled, guilty, or ashamed about what I feel. I am still working on them and figure there is plenty of room for improvement. But I must always see reality and respond to it alone if I am going to continue to heal.

The emotions seem to support our true beliefs about ourselves. If we believe that we are worthless, our emotions will support that thinking. We will crave what is unhealthy & harmful in relationships, food, lifestyle, and every other choice. While these beliefs are usually unconscious, they are advertised in our choices.

If we are paying attention to the reality of our actions, we will see what out true beliefs really are. Some of them are painful and shocking. I recently recognized that I was making up stories about myself, refusing to recognize the facts of my health and assuming I would be the exception. I was totally unaware I was doing this. But, like all delusion, it was harmful. I was not doing what was healthy for me because my denial based perception said I would be fine with a poor diet and no exercise. I was behaving insanely, but I am trying to overcome that belief and improve my health.

47

REALITY may not be what you think

by Terry in

a counterfeit $100 bill looks virtually the same as a genuine bill.

ask yourself what actual difference exists between them?.

a really good elvis impersonator may look and sound pretty darned close to the real elvis--but, is "close" the same as genuine?.

Reality vs Delusion

I created the account a month ago & I wish I had picked a different name. I was thinking about reality & delusion at the time, so I used it. No coincidence, just something I have been trying to figure out lately. As for the avatar, I didn’t pick it & it looks like a lobotomized blueberry. I can see what you are saying about that statement being confusing, it doesn’t really say what I meant. Let me clarify my thinking.

Reality can only be realized through rational thought & reasoning. However, that reasoning must be based solely on whats really there & that isn’t always easy. We have to face our emotional delusions and recognize that they are present and actively distorting every thought. We must see past out perceptions & beliefs, because they are built on misconceptions (false understanding & false knowledge).

I grew up hearing that there is no reality, only perception. I believed it, but recently I changed my mind. The fact is 2+2 will always be 4, even if I am convinced that the answer is 5. If I am unaware of my delusion, all my perceptions will be false & I will be viewed as mentally ill by any sane person. Reality is simply fact and is beyond our personal perceptions and feelings. Our opinion doesnt replace the facts. From where I am sitting all my perceptions tell me the earth is flat and unmoving, that doesn’t mean the earth really is flat & unmoving. If I feel I am in the only true religion, that doesn’t mean I really am in the only true religion. Beliefs, perception, and wishful thinking are not ultimate reality.

While I have seen very little (if any) evidence that a spiritual world exists, if it does exist it must be approached from reality alone & without delusion. If there is a god, he would only function in reality. So whatever spiritual pursuit we may consider, the first step must always be from a point of clear sanity. Our personal delusions will alter reality & it will no longer be real.

If we continuously accept delusion and take everything on faith, before long we will not be able to tell the difference between what is real and what is our delusion or imagination. That is the current state of JWs, they believe whatever they are told and simply are not aware that it isn't real by any measure. Because of this, they can make totally unfounded personal claims on ANY subject & they truly believe what they just imagined is real... and cannot understand anyone who questions or denies it. No matter the validity of the initial idea, if it is filtered through a delusional mind, it will become delusional and harmful.

The ability to recognize reality and delusion is hugely important. From what I have seen, thinking our personal delusions are reality is causing ALL of our problems. Accepting reality comfortably (without trying to make it fit our belief system) allows us to truly live and be happy.

47

REALITY may not be what you think

by Terry in

a counterfeit $100 bill looks virtually the same as a genuine bill.

ask yourself what actual difference exists between them?.

a really good elvis impersonator may look and sound pretty darned close to the real elvis--but, is "close" the same as genuine?.

Reality vs Delusion

Reality is. When you add perceptions of any kind, you no longer have reality, you have perception.

All people have delusions about life, the universe, themselves, others, and basically everything they come into contact with every day. The ones that deny that fact are usually the most delusional, convincing themselves they are the exception and they see the "truth." They make the mistake of thinking their personal perceptions & unconscious delusions ARE reality.

Reality is not a perception, an idea, or a belief. Our personal understanding, knowledge, and feelings are simply NOT reality. They are only our limited understanding, our limited knowledge, and our feelings.

This is not a bad thing at all. If we can relax our beliefs and insecurities long enough to honestly see what is around us, we will find reality to be very easy. Making up imaginary stories that don’t match the evidence is hard, unhealthy & exhausting. As Ex-JWs, we all know this is true. We make up the stories to protect ourselves from our fears & to gain acceptance.

In my efforts to see what is real, I have been forced to face a reality about JWs. When someone will harm you to preserve their delusions, they are evil. They don’t intend to be evil, but the evidence supports only that conclusion. If a "good" person will ignore child molestation (for example) so they don’t have to face their perceptions about religion, they cannot be “good.”

I don’t condemn them personally at all, I really like most of them and think if they could get back to their true personality, they would be wonderful people. But the deep delusions of the JWs have created sociopath-like behavior. If it quacks like a duck. It was very hard for me to see this in my family and friends, but it is undeniable. I don’t view them as evil, but I know if I let my guard down, they will try to destroy my self worth and that action is always evil

“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.” -Steven Weinberg

Is this just my perception? Certainly. But the evidence supports it so far. If the evidence changes, so will by perception. But until then, 2+2=4.

33

Tell me if this is a stupid idea.

by DATA-DOG in

you know how you sometimes you are going about your day and then an idea hits you?

you say to yourself, " what a great idea!!".

then you think to yourself that maybe it isn't so great?

Reality vs Delusion

Anything you say will be forgotten in 5 minutes & all they will recall is that you are an apostate or mentally ill.

You have to remember that you are not dealing with sane people. It doesn’t matter what is real or what makes sense. They will never play by the rules that a reasonable person would follow.

Basically, decide what you want and only work towards that goal. If you want personal attention, go for it & play the game. If you want them to understand anything real, you are wasting your time. If you just want out of the org, just leave without doing anything that will cause you needless stress. If you want to keep peace in your family, continue the quiet fade.

Dont harm yourself by giving them ANY perceived power over you.

376

How is creationism DISPROVED?

by sabastious in

jw
friends

it is disproven.

but let's start another thread, because this one is being yanked off track again.

creationism/evolution always deserves its own thread.

Reality vs Delusion

Hey, Sab called me crazy... okay, thats fair, I called him a JW so I had it coming.

And perhaps I am crazy for posting anything on this thread, even if it was just out of boredom and irritation at the bizarreness of it all.

“Learn to distinguish the difference between errors of knowledge and breaches of morality. An error of knowledge is not a moral flaw, provided you are willing to correct it; only a mystic would judge human beings by the standard of an impossible, automatic omniscience. But a breach of morality is the conscious choice of an action you know to be evil, or a willful evasion of knowledge, a suspension of sight and of thought. That which you do not know, is not a moral charge against you; but that which you refuse to know, is an account of infamy growing in your soul. Make every allowance for errors of knowledge; do not forgive or accept any breach of morality. Give the benefit of the doubt to those who seek to know; but treat as potential killers those specimens of insolent depravity who make demands upon you, announcing that they have and seek no reasons, proclaiming, as a license, that they ‘just feel it’-or those who reject an irrefutable argument by saying: ‘It’s only logic,’ which means: ‘It’s only reality.’ The only realm opposed to reality is the realm and premise of death." - John Galt, From Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand

376

How is creationism DISPROVED?

by sabastious in

jw
friends

it is disproven.

but let's start another thread, because this one is being yanked off track again.

creationism/evolution always deserves its own thread.

Reality vs Delusion

Our conversation never started.

Some people are still devote JWs in everything but meeting attendance.

376

How is creationism DISPROVED?

by sabastious in

jw
friends

it is disproven.

but let's start another thread, because this one is being yanked off track again.

creationism/evolution always deserves its own thread.

Reality vs Delusion

If I didnt follow my own rules, kept some of the rules secret, or changed the rules when they didnt serve my reasoning, does that invalidate all my thinking?

Why dont you sing hyms?